Live Blogging: Hearing on Civil Rights Implications of State and Local Immigration Enforcement

America's Voice Blog

Posted 04/02/09 at 09:59am

UPDATE: We posted some highlights and lowlights from the hearing here. Here is the link to the letter by the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Center for New Community.

Below is the first image we shot today: Being interviewed is Julio Cesar Mora, the U.S. Citizen from Arizona who was arrested without reason, along with his father, whose fingers were tied with twist-ties, and who was not allowed to go to the bathroom during his prison stay (officers poked fun at his inability to go to the bathroom with his hands tied instead). He had committed no crime, other than looking Latino.

Julio Cesar Mora

3:22 PM: Rep. Lofgren says the hearing is near an end, but the discussion is far from over. That's for sure.

Check back here in a few hours for video and images from the day.

3:21 PM: Funny that Republican Members keep pressing Chief Gascon on the funding of his trip- trying to make up for the SPLC letter objecting to Kobach's testimony? Here is the letter in question. (UPDATED)

3:18 PM: Harris talking about federal database. Kobach says that "people of alien status" can be included in NCIC- the database in question. Interesting discussion.

3:16 PM: Rep King introduces news articles and studies. Says law enforcement has to "reflect broken laws." Agree there- but aren't our immigration laws broken?

3:15 PM: Rep. Poe asks Kobach about 287g. Invoking 9-11 for third time at this hearing. Problem is, the 9-11 hijackers were not undocumented immigrants. Repeat: the 9-11 hijackers were not undocumented immigrants. Thid time: the 9-11 hijackers were not undocumented immigrants. </rant>

3:13 PM: Rep Poe - tries to discredit Harris' testimony because he has not met Arpaio personally, even though he is talking about a series of law enforcement tactics employed throughout the country.

3:10 PM: Discussion of the geographic distribution of 287g programs. Officials who carry out 287g are not trained sufficiently, according to Harris. Kobach- training varies, and is sufficient.

3:01 PM: Chief Gascon aggressively dismisses Rep. Lungren for his line of questioning implying the Gascon is "beholden" to anyone for coming to the hearing. He reminds the Committee that he "dances for no one," that he honorably served in the US army and has been an officer for 30 years. Rep. Lungren continues to interrogate his motives for coming.

2:56 PM: Rep. Lungren talking about county jails. Asks why Sheriff Joe Arpaio was not invited to hearing. Ironic, given that Arpaio was the one who said that he would not attend the hearing.

2:32 PM: BRIEF BREAK CALLED- Members to Vote on unrelated legislation.

(NOTE: click on more for the full Live Blog.)

2:31 PM: Harris: federal role needs to be properly enforced.

2:30 PM: Nadler: why should non-immigrant communities care about this? Harris: crime overall goes up when local law enforcement shifts priorities to prosecuting non-criminal residents, under the 287g program.

2:28 PM: Nadler asks Police Chief Gascon why violent crime has decreased in Mesa County but gone up in Maricopa County (Sheriff Joe Arpaio's jurisdiction)- result of narrow focus on 287g.

2:26 PM: Rep. Nadler aggressively counters Kobach's claim that SPLC is a "spurrious" organization. Cites their long and distinguished record advocating for the rights of women and minorities and countering racial violence.

2:23 PM: Rep Rooney - how do we stem crime in Arizona? Also, brings up gang violence. Kobach says that there are not statistics to support racial profiling- there are ways that people can request damages for racial profiling in every state.

2:20 PM: Rep. Rooney praises Chief Gascon for his work. Calls concerns about Arpaio's tactics a "witchhunt," despite the fact that there are 2,700 lawsuits against Arpaio.

2:12 PM: Rep. Lofgren talks about a controversial raid of the Mesa County City Hall by Sheriff Joe Arpaio's masked citizen "posse." Chief Gascon says that the raid was politically motivated and made him feel like he was not in America anymore. He is describing the raid in detail.

2:08 PM: Kobach says that racial profiling claims are "mere allegations," that there has never been any ruling about racial profiling under 287g.

2:05 PM: Kobach- upset that the SPLC letter connecting him to the Federation for American Immigration Reform was read on record. Distances himself from race-based organizations, but not FAIR. (UPDATED with link)

2:03 PM: Kobach- Arizona has seen a high rate of immigrants self-deporting. Is this true?

2:01 PM: Kobach says that the 287g program is not necessarily for dangerous criminals- just for arresting and detaining "aliens."

1:59 PM: Witness Kris Kobach - 42 agencies are waiting to get 287g authority. In one jurisdiction 42,000 arrests made. Witness equates arrests with efficacy of 287g program.

1:57 PM: Gascon- strict requirements needed to employ 287g, otherwise creates problems. (Will come back to these.)

1:54 PM: Police Chief and Witness George Gascon speaks about politically charged environment, that perception of police is being set back to the 1950's and 60's. Enforcement decisions are being based on politics instead of safety concerns.

1:48 PM: Witness Hubert Williams, President of the Police Foundation, gives statistics. Says it's important not to generalize all immigrants based on a few bad apples. Similar to the Italian community, and the Irish, in the past, whole communities have been demonized throughout nation's history. The big challenge for local police is to balance the interests of their roles with the state, the civil liberties established under the Constitution, and the business of enforcing federal immigration laws. Recommendations: cost of participating in 287g outweighs its benefits. shouldn't arrest/detain solely based on immigration status. If a county enters 287g they should focus on serious criminals. Need to preserve trust to keep communities safe.

1:45 PM: Witness Professor David Harris describes the need for trust in community policing. Why certain practices that target communities make our entire country less safe.

1:40 PM: Lofgren calls second panel, describes a letter she received from the Southern Poverty Law Center which outlines contributions given to one of the witnesses, Kris Kobach, a Professor of Law, from the recognized hate group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform. (LINK)

1:35PM: Lofgren asks Weissman about the way that 287g has been carried out in counties in NC. In one county, 83% of those picked up were charged with minor traffic violations, and in others, roadblocks were set up to check licenses outside Latino markets and churches on Sundays.

1:27 PM: Conyers describes need to uphold human decency in the debate. Talks about how, even as a citizen, you call the police and you put other members of your family in danger of getting "shipped out-" deported. Creates problems with communities working with the police.

1:23 PM: Gutierrez- hate crimes are also unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Deaths of Tranchant's daughters unacceptable. Deaths due to hate crimes also unacceptable.

1:20 PM: Rep Waters hopes that the law applies equally to immigrants and non-immigrants, and that criminals who put us in danger are prosecuted fully. "Many of us are committed to comprehensive reform. We have to come up with a way of reconciling the time that people have been here, contributing to this country, and how they can get in line to become citizens." Need for public policy that deals with reality that immigrants are a key to the fabric of our society. Need more understanding for the role employers play and emphasizes need to solve the problem.

1:13 PM: Rep. Gutierrez describes reality of situation: no one things drunk drivers should not be prosecuted. He says emphatically that they should be deported, locked up, etc. He also states that there is not the political will to deport 12 million undocumented people, but that instead we should be talking about comprehensive immigration reform. Gutierrerz describes an important point: a lot of the worst crimes happen to the very immigrant community that King is talking about. That is why it is important for immigrant community to feel safe reporting crime to the police - to lock up the murderers, killers, and rapists. Talks about the prejudice to Irish immigrants, how the "rule of law" was needed to control the "Italians" back in the day. How that same Irish community under attack produced President Kennedy - Laughing, King says "Me, too!"

1:12 PM: Rep. King brings back argument that the 'embarassment' of Latino citizens is not important, given Tranchant's loss.

1:08 PM: Rep. Jordan - talks about how we need to just enforce current laws. Describes the situation as "Amnesty" vs. soley enforcing current laws- forgets to mention comprehensive immigration reform, which most Americans prefer to either of these.

1:00 PM: Rep. Lee is appalled by the fact that there aren't harsher drunk driving laws, for lawful or unlawful residents. She emphasizes the need for better protections. She brings up a good point: the fact that Mr. Tranchant's daughter was killed by a drunk driver is a heinous crime. I would add that the heinous crime does not, however, mean that all, most, or even a comparable share of undocumented immigrants are "drunk murderers killing U.S. citizens," as the argument implied.

12:57 PM: Tranchant: "I don't want drunks in America. If we have an opportunity to deport them, we should do that. This law takes undesirable people and puts them in the back of the immigration law. We don't like drunks. If you're a murderer, go home!"

12:55 PM: King asks Ramirez to explain the deaths of Tranchant's daughters, in a very strange comparison of "which crime is worse." Ramirez responds passionately that he also grieves for Tranchant's loss. He also grieves the loss of children's mothers and fathers (because of deportation?).

12:54 PM: Rep. King basically says that discrimination is a slight inconvenience.

12:52 PM: Nadler asks Ramirez what the relationship is like between police and local community. Ramirez says that community is living in increasing fear, that people won't report crimes to the police as a result. Ramirez tells story of a man who was "driving too slow" and detained by police as a result, until he could prove his citizenship.

12:45 PM: Rep. Nadler asks Julio Mora about the arrest of him and his father. Asks what the witness thought was happening when the police showed up in ski masks. Julio didn't know what was happening. He says he wants to be treated equally by the police.

12:39 PM: Witness Ray Tranchant begins testimony, speaks of his own story- his daughters being killed tragically by a drunk driver who was undocumented and had previous violations. Argues that crime would have been prevented if offender was deported. Shows pictures of his two young daughters.

12:36 PM: Weissman - Draws comparison between African-American voter suppression efforts in NC and current attempts to suppress Hispanic voting. Describes recent events in Alamance County, where Commissioners approved a resolution calling for a moratorium on immigration to the county. Hate groups and hate speech flow throughout debates over 287g. Shares stories of racial profiling.

12:33 PM: Distinguished Professor of Law Deborah Weissman begins testimony about 287g agreements and their connection to local episodes of racial violence.

12:31 PM: Ramirez carries the Constitution with him to remind him how proud he is to be American. Speaks about being human and how people that look like himself should not be targeted indiscriminately. Speaks passionately about how much he loves this country.

12:27 PM: Witness Antonio Ramirez speaks passionately, brings out a copy of his citizenship papers to prove he has the right to speak, anger palpable in his voice while talking about how Latino residents of Frederick, Maryland, are scared of reporting crime and the targets of racial profiling. Seems on the verge of tears while talking about the Constitution, and the equal opportunities guaranteed to citizens and residents under it.

12:22 PM: Witness Julio Cesar Mora, a US citizen from Arizona, speaks about his past- his mother died at a young age, so he was raised primarily by his father. One day, when he and his father, a legal permanent resident, were driving, they were stopped by two black SUV's for no reason. He and his father had their hands tied with zip-ties, like common criminals, for no reason. His father was not allowed to go to the bathroom after asking 5 times, even though he had diabetes. He had to go behind a car, in the end. The officers didn't let Julio untie his hands to go the bathroom, and continued to make jokes about it.

12:20 PM: While we're waiting, here's a recent report by the Immigration Policy Center with statistics on immigrant crime levels, for background.

12:15 PM: About to reconvene here. Uploading some images right now, but unfortunately video will have to come later. Looks like our internet connection is too slow for YouTube (thanks, Verizon broadband).

-BREAK-

11:35: Hating YouTube right now. Major video upload FAIL.

10:45 AM: We'll be back soon, and I'll try to get some pictures and videos up here in about 20 minutes. Leave us comments/questions!

10:42 AM: Rep Lofgren introduces witnesses, announces a one hour break. Check out the witness list here.

10:40 AM: Rep. Lungren (R-CA) calls Houston a sanctuary city. (That's an insult).

10:40 AM: Rep. Watt talks abobut legitimate concern that some of these practices are being driven by money.

10:39 AM: Conyers puts things in perspective- talks about the time when it was "Driving While Black" that we were up against.

10:35 AM: Rep. Conyers speaking to Rep. Steve King about racial profiling. Gross violation of the 14th amendment, equal protection clause.

10:32 AM: Chairman of Judiciary John Conyers (D-MI) speaking. (Somewhat unrelated: bipartisan recognition of anti-human trafficking work of colleague- round of applause in the room).

10:29 AM: Rep. Lamar Smith is detailing every single crime committed by immigrants in recent memory- in horrific detail. Unclear how this relates to overall hearing. No one is saying that law enforcement shouldn't apprehend criminals who commit horrific crimes.

10:26 AM: Nadler (Chairman-NY): "Is it appropriate for local police to enforce federal immigration law, and if so, are dollars being spent correctly?" If rights and standards are being violated, should feds revoke 287g agreements- especially if people's rights are being violated?" Rep. Nadler appeals to audience, that no matter our views on immigration, we do not have the right to declare 'open season' on any group of individuals. Just like we did with the KKK, we have to monitor local police to ensure our values are upheld.

10:24 AM: Rep King talking about the victims of "criminal aliens," but ignores the fact that the"illegal aliens" he is speaking of committ crimes at lower rates than US-born counterparts. (UPDATED LINK ).

10:24 AM: Rep. King invokes 9-11. Groan.

10:20 AM: Congressman Steve King (IA) speaking about checkpoints and enforcing the law. Border patrol routinely stopping and slowing motorists near the border are okay to refer individuals (citing an '81 Supreme Court case) to immigration officials. King's justification for racial profiling of individuals- DOJ guidelines.

Rep. Lofgren: "If this Congress is committed to protecting the public saftey in our communities, victims of crime, and civil rights, then we are required to examine the affects of state and local law enforcement of immigration law."

10:15 AM: House Immigration Subcommittee Chairwoman Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) opens the hearing with statements about the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), and how important it is for families to feel safe in reporting crime to the police.

10:00 AM: Thanks to David Waldman of Congress Matters for the shout-out, and check out the live broadcast on the Judiciary website:

Full committee schedule appears below. I've added a note to the 10:00 House Judiciary hearing on immigration, which is likely to take a hard look at notorious Maricopa County, AZ Sheriff Joe Arpaio. In addition to the link you can use to watch the hearing live on the web, I've added a link to the America's Voice blog, which will be liveblogging the event.

We have a packed room here, and the Judiciary Subcommittee hearing into "Public Safety and Civil Rights Implications of State and Local Enforcement of Federal Immigration Laws" is just getting underway. I will be live blogging the hearing right here (at the America's Voice Blog). Here are some coordinates and details about the Subcommittees:

"Public Safety and Civil Rights Implications of State and Local Enforcement of Federal Immigration Laws"

Thursday 04/02/2009 - 10:00 A.M.,

2141 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC

Hosted by the Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship, Refugees, Border Security, and International Law and Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties

Membership - Immigration Subcommittee

Democrats: Lofgren (Chair-CA), Berman (CA), Jackson Lee (TX), Waters (CA), Pierluisi (PR), Gutierrez (IL), Linda Sanchez (CA), Weiner (NY), Gonzalez (TX), Delahunt (MA)

Repubilcans: King (Ranking Member-IA), Harper (MS), Gallegly (CA), Lungren (CA), Poe (TX), Chaffetz (UT)

Membership - Constitution Subcommittee

Democrats: Nadler (Chairman-NY), Watt (NC), Scott (VA), Delahunt (MA), Johnson (GA), Baldwin (WI), Conyers (Chairman of full Judiciary Committee-MI), Cohen (TN), Sherman (CA), Jackson Lee (TX)

Republicans: Sensenbrenner (Ranking Member-WI), Rooney (FL), King (IA), Franks (AZ), Gohmert (TX), Jordan (OH)

Stay tuned for more in a few- just getting started, and a quorum of Member of Congress are present. We'll try to share video footage throughout the day.

By Jackie Mahendra
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Comments

thanks for the live updates

09-05-09 By Naughty Monkey Boots(Los Angeles)

I don’t think it has to do with racism. It seems to me it is just the abuse of power. This is a very widespread problem. I watched a movie which tried to solve it (the movie Imprisoned. Found it at the rapidshare http://rapid4me.com ). It is not an easy problem but if to be very severe to those who abuse this can be stopped. But of course there are different cases.

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I like such type of interview. It is a good job. Thanks for sharing here. I will wait for your next blog.

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10-16-09 By dog breeders

Harris talking about federal database. Kobach says that “people of alien status” can be included in NCIC- the database in question. Interesting discussion.